I’m not an eavesdropper normally, but I occasionally hear snippets of conversation while walking down the street. The dialogue is usually forgettable, confusing or mildly amusing because it comes out of context or in fragments that don’t make much sense.

These moments begin with barely audible words that get louder and then burst forth with something like “after that, boom shakalaka,” as they pass by, leaving you intrigued, but unfulfilled.

Sometimes, though, overheard conversations between strangers cover broader topics and reach deep into the heart of societal problems, causing anxiety and pain. This is the domain of the male-female argument.

I recently overheard such an event outside a coffee shop in Mill Valley. I was sitting on a small cement wall enjoying the infusion of caffeine as the sun gleamed through a remnant of the morning fog. The couple — which I assumed was on a date — was behind me. It started out as a mere discussion and grew in tone and volume until it reached a crescendo. I never looked back and tried not to listen, but I couldn’t help it.

The following is my reconstruction of what they said. The woman spoke first:

She: I’m so sick of men running everything, but I’m glad more women are in the workforce. I think men feel threatened by that.

He: I don’t feel threatened.

She: Most men do, especially in the major industries, like tech and high finance. It’s because women are often better at their jobs than men.

He: I don’t understand why it always has to be a competition. Men and women will have to work together if things are going to work out in the end.

She: Tell that to the men. They have made all the rules, held all the top jobs, made all the money and held women down for centuries. Now their poor egos are hurt because women are finally demanding what they should have had all along.

He: I agree women should have equal pay for equal work, equal opportunity and equal representation in all aspects of society, but the reason men were historically heads of the household, politics and industry was because that’s what society dictated. Women perpetuated those cultural traditions as much as men did.

She: Oh ho! You are on thin ice, buddy. Women never chose to be second class citizens. They lived by the rules because they had no choice. They had to do it to survive.

He: Same with men. Do you think men had a choice back then?

She: Back when?

He: Back in the day, when the roles of men and women were defined. Listen, what I object to is the blaming of men exclusively for the way things are for women. As I said before, I think we need to work together, not against each other, toward equality.

She: You just asked me if men had a choice when they decided to prevent women from voting, holding down jobs, being in politics or any of the other myriad things women were prevented from doing that may not have been ladylike enough. Damned right they had a choice! Meanwhile, we had no choice but to clean your houses and have your babies or be ostracized and shamed.

He: Look, I don’t agree with the way things were for women, but I think women back in the day had a more complicated and influential role in society than you are giving them credit for. The Queen of England has always been a woman from what I recall. Still, that’s not my point. My point is that men were pigeonholed into roles just as much as women were. What do you think they called a man who refused to take up arms and fight. He was called a coward, a sissy. A man without a job has always been more stigmatized than a women without work. You don’t hear people whispering disapprovingly to one another that a woman can’t provide for her family. You hear that about unemployed men all the time, even today.

She: Oh, boo hoo for men. They were forced by their swinging dicks into having all the power, all the money and all the influence. And then, when they didn’t live up to it, they were insulted by being called a sissy, meaning a woman. How low can you get? The word sissy is one of many insulting words men call each other that depict women in a negative light. That should tell you something right there about how men view women.

He: So you think men chose long ago to subjugate women out of selfishness, greed and hatefulness and the necessities of life had nothing to do with it?

She: I don’t think men chose that specifically. They just did it and they sure held onto it for a long time even though it was unfair, discriminatory and wrong.

He: Men used to hold doors open for women, stand up when they came into a room, throw their coats over mud holes so a lady wouldn’t get her petticoat wet or dirty. Men were expected to protect women and children, to fight and die for them. They didn’t do that to demean women. They did it to be gentlemen, which was the standard by which women and society judged men. I’m talking about heterosexual men, of course, but, by and large, I believe men act, and have always acted, in ways that they believe are attractive to women.

She: Oh, please! So now women are at fault for men’s behavior.

He: I never said that. You indicated men were to blame and that women had nothing to do with the way the male-female roles developed in our society. Well, I think men, just like women, were subjects, if not victims, of a culture that developed during a time when men, by nature of being bigger and stronger, did the hunting and fighting while the women did the gathering and took care of the campfire.

She: I think there has been ample time since the caveman days to change things.

He: Yes, but both men and women have to make that change. How do you think men learn how to behave? They observe, as teenagers and young boys, who gets all the girls and they quickly learn its the strong, wealthy types, the professional athletes, the billionaires, the celebrities, so they emulate those powerful men. That hasn’t changed despite the feminist movement or MeToo. Women are attracted to strong, powerful men, so men try to be that way. Just look at Donald Trump. He’s an old, fat, lying pig, but there are plenty of beautiful women, even his wife at one time, who were perfectly happy to sleep with him. You said that you were sick of men running everything. My point is that a lot of women — maybe even most women — are more attracted to the types of men who run everything than they are to men like me, who barely have enough money to survive the month. Most guys model their behavior after the men women want to have sex with. If women want men to stop obsessing over power and control, stop being attracted to wealthy, powerful men.

She: That is so juvenile. You’re saying that because men are controlled by their dicks, we women should give up our quest for equal rights and cater to the almighty cock. I’m not attracted to men who run everything. And, anyway, what does that have to do with giving women equal opportunity in the workplace and in society? You’re justifying the unfair treatment of women.

He: I am not. It’s not about what women should or shouldn’t have. My argument is that women have always had a major influence in making men what they are. I claim men never sought to hold down women. That may have happened, but not because men got together and said, “let’s subjugate women.” It was because they were compelled by cultural forces to act manly, to be chivalrous, to be strong and show toughness or society, including women, would think less of them. That still happens, by the way. I want women to have equal rights and opportunity and every one of my male friends does too, but you’re essentially blaming us for the inequality you perceive. It’s unfair and counterproductive.

She: By that logic, we should not blame the slaveholder for holding slaves. The poor, misunderstood master was just doing what society dictated. Its a ridiculous argument. I’m not blaming you. Everybody, even men, should have the right and ability to become successful with hard work. The only thing holding women back is dominant males perpetuating a male dominated society -- and apologists like you -- who make excuses for them.

A cloud blotted out the sun at that point and the wind picked up. I didn’t have a jacket, so I stood up, tossed my empty coffee cup in the trash and crossed the street. I heard, as I reached the other side, the muffled sound of two raised voices and a moaning sound, like weeping, but it may just have been the cool bluster of the late afternoon breeze.